Season 1, Episode 7: Cameron Burns

Today, we're thrilled to be joined by Campbell Burns, the creative force behind Vacations, a band that has been turning heads since its inception in 2015 in the coastal city of Newcastle, NSW.

With over 10 million monthly listeners on Spotify alone and their latest studio album, "No Place Like Home," hitting the airwaves, Vacations is a force to be reckoned with. Join us as we embark on a journey through the stories behind the music as Campbell offers insights into the band's evolution and the challenges they faced as they carved out a space in the competitive landscape of a global music scene.

Interview Transcript

Adam Burke: Welcome to The Cockatoo, connecting and boosting the Australian music community here in the United States of America. We're coming to you from Hollywood, California, traditionally Tongva and Chumash country and this is the interview part of our newsletter where we get into musical journeys to the United States. Today we're joined by Campbell Burns, who is the founding member, lead singer, guitarist and songwriter for the band, Vacations. Vacations were formed in 2015 in Newcastle, which for those who don't know, is a coastal city about 100 kilometers north of Sydney as the crow flies.

Over 10 million people per month listen to Vacations on Spotify alone, and they have just released their third studio album, No Place Like Home. That album title seems like a perfect point of departure as we learn more about the journey of Campbell and his band. Welcome, Campbell.

Campbell Burns: G'day, how are ya?

Adam: I'm very well, thank you. It's fantastic to have you on The Cockatoo.

Campbell: Thank you.

Adam: Yes. Let's get into it. First off, tell us about Vacations. Who makes up the rest of the crew?

Campbell: In order of who joined the band as well, to get really specific, myself, Jake Johnson, who plays bass, Nate Delizzotti, who plays lead guitar, and then Joseph Van Lier, who plays drums.

Adam: Got it. You guys formed, were you all from Newcastle when you formed in 2015?

Campbell: Yes.

Campbell: In saying that, originally it was just myself, and then there was Jake, and then we were like going through all kinds of different drummers, and trying to figure that all out. Then Nate joined the band because, him and I went to TAFE together. Then eventually I put out an ad on Facebook looking for drummers because we really needed someone that was going to be consistent, and just ready to tour, and just really wanted to dedicate themselves to it. Then Joey found us through that. The band that you know now probably got together like late, I think 2016 was like the final lineup or maybe-- yes, 2016, because that's when the second EP came out. Yes.

Adam: You guys have been the same lineup since that time, late 2016?

Campbell: Yes. Since that time, but the project has been around since 2015.

Adam: Okay. You're currently based in Los Angeles, right?

Campbell: That's true.

Adam: Okay. What about the other band members? Where are they located?

Campbell: They're all back home.

Adam: Okay. In Newcastle?

Campbell: They should be here. Yes, they're all back in Newy.

Adam: All right. Let's get into that. When did you move to the United States?

Campbell: I moved late May of last year. I was traveling for about five months prior to that, just living out of a suitcase, going from city to city, country to country, just recording, writing, just, I guess, on a journey of self-discovery or just trying to figure out what I wanted to do next, because I had a series of circumstances, December of 2022, where my car got stolen, I went through a break-up, someone I knew in the music scene had passed away, and it was all of these things happening at the same time, and this idea of feeling stuck and stagnant that I knew I wanted to move, I wanted to go somewhere else.

I knew that if I stayed in Newcastle, I would have been comfortable, but I also would have been really bored, and I wouldn't have been doing anything new or exciting. I wouldn't have been pushing myself. I think I need that. I think it's important for everyone, especially if you have an artist practice, to be in that realm of uncertainty, and almost making yourself uncomfortable, but with intention, so that you can progress, and so that you can grow, and so that you can be the artist that you want to be.

Adam: Between 2022 and mid-2023, you've got this crazy period of your life where there's a lot of upheaval. You're touring. There's all these things happening. Do you remember that specific moment where you thought to yourself, "Yes, I'm moving to LA?"

Campbell: Yes, it was definitely in the period of like-- when was it? April to mid-May, there was like a two-month period, it was after I left. I went LA, New York, to Austin, then back to LA for a day or two, and then it was around that time I was like, "I want to live in the US. I need to be here. There's something about it." Despite all the culture shock, and all of the almost stereotypes or anything that you can level at the US, and whilst there some truth to that, there is almost like a lot of beauty, and there's a lot of wonderful people. There is just like, you can explore any niche or any weird subculture or anything, and there's just so much acceptance towards it. That's something I really appreciate.

In contrast to Australia, where I feel like we're so in the middle, and there is such a culture of tall poppy syndrome, and it's just incredibly stifling

Adam: During that, this last-- oh, really, just a year or two where you've had so much happening both with the band, and personally, and what else. How are you finding peace for yourself within all of that craziness?

Campbell: Oh, that is a good question. That's a scary question. Truthfully, I have no idea. That's not me just being blasé, but it's just being honest. Because, coming home after our most recent run of shows in Australia for Laneway Festival, it's the longest break I've had in 14 months. I have never been home, wherever that is. Currently it's Los Angeles, but I don't know where it'll be in the future. I've never had so much time to be still and present and do nothing.

I think it's actually quite a difficult thing to do nothing, or to be restful. I think you'll hear a lot of musicians talk about it, but that idea of post-tour blues, I was feeling it the other day where I was like, "I want to be on the road. I want to be playing shows again," because whilst there is so much chaos, within that chaos there is structure and order and routine. That helps keep you grounded, even though so much is happening, and it's such a whirlwind, and a frantic lifestyle is one that I gravitate towards. Being home since I think mid February, we're only just coming up to like mid late March. It's been a month. I'm getting restless.

Adam: Tell us about your experience. Obviously, you've had a lot of travel. You haven't had a tremendous amount of time to sort of just hang in LA.

Campbell: That's the thing. It's weird too, because it's like whilst I have like a very tight-knit group of people that I absolutely adore, and I can hang out with and all of that, it is always this idea of like, "Well, I'm in transit constantly." It's like, "Is this something that's going to last, or is this something that's just a brief period in time, and then I'm somewhere else, and then I'm restarting that whole process again?"

Because I do think about it, and I do get homesick quite often, as I'm sure many expats do. Just, it's like, "Well, I could just go home," and it's like all my friends have like 10-plus years and have had so many memories and experiences with my family, my dog, everything. Like, it's all just there, and it's just so simple. It'd be so easy just to be like, "Okay, this is too much. I'm just going to go back.

Adam: What do you think is driving you to leave that, just leave the boredom side of it aside for a second, because that's one thing, but there's got to be something a little bit deeper than that. Do you think it's personal, professional, a mixture of the two?

Campbell: Everything. It's everything. I think in terms of creativity and art, especially within the music industry, I feel like Australia, again, going to that idea of a ceiling, that it's so low in Australia, and it's, you can only push yourself so far, because there's only so many venues, there's only so many cities. It just makes it really difficult if you're a touring musician, but then I also find the way that Australians consume culture, whilst there could be like more niche or experimental genres of music, it's not always well-received, and it's only a few select artists that actually make their way to the top. Then that's all there really is. It's a very limited market. Whilst we've had success in Australia, I don't necessarily want to be in a market like that.

I also want to have access to opportunities that will, one, allow me to connect with others. Again, that whole idea of community, but then two, to be able to grow as a person, as an individual, but then also artistically by seeing and taking in what others are doing.

Not to say that all of these things can't be done within Australia, but it's within a much more restrained environment. I do get a little bit frustrated with it at times, because I think there are so many wonderful bands back home, but their chance of success is already so low because of the way that, again, Australians consume culture, but also how we've set up the market for artists in order to succeed. I don't think it's viable. I don't think it's sustainable. Which fucking sucks, I hate it.

Adam: Let's talk about that for a second, because you guys, you're a little bit of a unicorn, you're doing--

Campbell: We're an underdog, yes.

Adam: Right. You're doing 10 million monthly listeners on Spotify, is a monstrous number in the music industry these days. I know it doesn't add up to a lot of coin, but it adds up to a lot of listeners, and a lot of people who want to see you guys live. You're very busy touring. How were you guys able to get yourself out of that Australian ecosystem in terms of fans, and be able to have such success in the US and Europe and other places around the world?

Campbell: It wasn't through an Australian audience, which is the worst part, because it should have been, but it's not. How that happened was through social media, like SoundCloud and YouTube initially, back in 2015 through to like, I want to say 2017, 2018, that whole rise of bedroom pop. Artists like Clairo, Boy Pablo, Yellow Days, there's so many. Through that, we got swept up within that genre, within those artists. So you had a lot of people like David Dean Burkhart on YouTube, who is fairly certain American, but has a large international following as a curator.

They started to upload our music, and then it just gave us access to this fan base that we otherwise wouldn't have had. We got lucky in that regard. I guess because it was that particular moment in time, but because of social media, because of SoundCloud and YouTube initially, and then inevitably TikTok and that whole reach that that platform has, it just allowed us to bypass so many of the barriers that are within the Australian music industry. We were able to garner this whole international fan base. By the time that we're playing 2,000 cap venues in the States, then Australia catches on because they're recognizing, "Oh, this band's actually popular. Oh, we like this now." It's like-- you know?

Adam: I get it. I get it. Let's get to that. Obviously, people connect with your music. That's a given. Otherwise you wouldn't have so many people listening to it. Beyond that, is there anything, any approach that you had toward YouTube, SoundCloud, TikTok eventually, toward thos e social media channels that you felt gave you an edge over the millions of other artists who are out there trying to compete for the same ears?

Campbell: I wish I had an answer. I don't necessarily think we did anything different. I will say that our particular genre or brand, again, that idea of being associated with bedroom pop, that jangly sound, that's what was trending at the time, and we got swept up within that. That's probably one of the few things I can attribute it to. I think the other thing, this might be, I'm not too sure, but I feel like a lot of Australian artists in particular just don't release albums anymore. I remember I had this very strong desire, like this almost force that was compelling me being like, "You need to release an album by the time you're 22. If you don't do that, the world is going to explode."

Years later, I'd be diagnosed with OCD. This all connects, but I feel like a lot of Australian artists stay trapped within the cycle of singles in order to appeal to Triple J, and to get onto the festival circuit in order to get that appeal. Because then by the time they do that, hopefully, they get the record deal, and then that will fund the album. Whereas I know I took the approach of, "Well, I have an album worth of songs here, and I vaguely know how to record and mix, and so does Nate, so let's just make a record together from our bedroom and see what happens."

I don't know. I just feel like, then you get over that initial debut album anxiety, and then guess what? You just do another one. You just keep trying, and you see what works. I think with that, it just allows us to have this body of work, or this like universe that fans can explore and immerse themselves into. That's been incredibly helpful, because I know that if we stay trapped in that cycle of just releasing singles or EPs, we wouldn't be getting anywhere. I know so many bands back home where it's like, they've been together for years, and it's like, they have so many songs, and they're great.

It's like, they will just keep sort of drip-feuding their releases. I guess it's also because of like, one, trying to get on the Triple J is one thing, but then also like, you're trying to hit like the Spotify algorithm. You're trying to do this. You're trying to do that. Does that make sense? I just feel like, I don't know.

Adam: Absolutely. An album gives you a body of work that your fans can absorb.

Campbell: If you keep making singles, or if you keep making EPs, it's like you'll never learn how to make an album. You'll never know how to start to finish 10 to 12 tracks or more, and weave a overarching narrative, and get that emotion out, because there's only so much that you can convey in one song. Sure, that one song might be an absolute banger, and people love it, but then it's like, they only know you for the one track. Whereas like, at least if there's like an album, then that allows potential fans to explore that, and see who you are as an artist.

Adam: Yes. Let's talk a little bit about just your experience touring out here. I was looking back at your 2023 tour, and venues like the Warfield in San Francisco, the Showbox in Seattle, Emo's in Austin, Webster Hall in New York, First Avenue in Minneapolis, these are legendary venues. Tell me about the feeling that you have. Are you cognizant of that on the road? The rooms you're in, and the people that have graced those stages before you?

Campbell: No, the only one that really struck me was Webster Hall in New York just because, again, I love that city with all my heart. I know that Webster Hall is such a famous, prestigious venue. It was one of the best shows I've ever played in my life to this day. Just such a special moment. There was a lot of friends there, and just the crowd was wonderful. There were so many just silly moments while we were getting through the set, and we couldn't stop smiling and laughing the whole time. We played really well. It's just, I love it.

Adam: You're a little more focused on the crowd experience than anything else?

Campbell: Oh my God. The crowd is more important. I could be playing in a dungeon, or like a gulag or something, but as long as the crowd is having a good time, that's all I care about.

Adam: Absolutely. Absolutely. Let's get a little bit into the creative process, because you are the songwriter of the band. Seeing that your most recent album, third album, No Place Like Home has only just recently been released. I'm guessing you haven't been through a full album cycle since you've been on this side of the Pacific. Have you had to have conversations with other band members about that? Is there anything that you're thinking about right now with respect to how you will go about your next album being so far apart?

Campbell: We've already started writing it. People ask us about the distance, but it's never really something that's concerned me, simply because the internet exists, and it just allows everyone to break down those barriers and just communicate, and it's fantastic. It's also as well, the fact that we are at such a level internationally where it's like, okay, we can afford to fly band members back and forth, whether it's for a tour, a recording session, this or that, because it is our job now. It’s definitely is a badge of privilege, and I completely recognize that, and it's one I'm eternally grateful for, but I don't think it's really ever been an issue.

Adam: Well, just rewinding a little bit. If you were to go back 2021, before you started this journey to actually permanently or semi-permanently, wherever you end up, move across the Pacific, what kind of advice would you give yourself?

Campbell: Probably none. I'd just be like, "You figure it out."

Adam: Yes. Roll with it.

Campbell: I had to figure it out, so my youngest-self can figure it.

Adam: Absolutely.

Adam:  Very, very interesting conversation. It's really, you're in a very, I would say dynamic phase of a musical career. It's wonderful that we've been able to capture you at this moment in time and hear where you're at.

Campbell: Thank you. I appreciate that. I hope anything I've said has been insightful or of interest.

Adam:  Absolutely. It's really a fascinating journey so far, and very unique. We really wish you all the best going forward, and for the career, and personally, and everything else.

Campbell: I appreciate that. Thank you for your time.

Adam: Of course. Thank you. You have been listening to The Cockatoo. This is a project of the Australian Music Alliance, and we're under the Pitchhiker Foundation, which is a 501(c)(3) non-profit. You can support us in any way you support a non-profit, but please listen to the stories we're telling. Subscribe to our newsletter, tell your friends, tell your family, tell your neighbors. Thank you so much for listening, and we will catch you on the next edition.