Season 1, Episode 3: Sam Cook

Welcome to Episode 3 of the Cockatoo! In our third episode, host Adam Burke chats with Indigenous Australian producer Sam Cook.

They get into Sam's beginnings as a Nyikina woman growing up in Broome and working as an arts professional in Australia before moving to LA, where she now produces via her company KMBA (Kiss My Blak Arts), is the APRA-AMCOS LA rep, and is yet to see a burning palm tree.

Interview Transcript

Interviewer:  Welcome to The Cockatoo. I'm Interviewer Burke, and this is your source for all things Australian music in the US of A. We're coming at you from Los Angeles, California, and this is the interview part of our newsletter where we talk about musical journeys to the United States.

Today, I'm very excited to be speaking to Sam Cook.  Sam is a Nyikina woman who grew up in the remote Kimberley region of Western Australia. She was the 1999 winner of Aboriginal Youth of the Year, and since then, her career has spanned many disciplines including writer, educator, and producer. Among other roles, she is currently the CEO of KMBA Events, Kiss My Black Arts, great name, and is also the APRA AMCOS representative in Los Angeles. Let's hear a little bit more about her journey. Welcome, Sam.

Sam Cook: Thanks, Interviewer, and yes, before we get started, I'd just like to acknowledge that we're on unceded territory of the Tongva, Keech, San Gabrielino and neighboring nations of so-called California, and I just wanted to pay my respects to the communities that are standing in resistance and in power today, the elders also past, present, and emerging.

Interviewer: Absolutely. Thank you for that, and I'm glad you mentioned it because, normally, we get right into people's story, but I do want to quickly get into the topic of Indigenous land recognition with you because I know it's something you're passionate about, and we'll post something on the newsletter when it comes out so people can dig in a little further.

In Australia, it's fairly common to talk about welcome to country and acknowledgment of country. In the United States, it's sort of a fledgling concept that we don't see in many places. For our Australian listeners, they'll consider this to be fairly common and a standard practice but tell us about the concept of acknowledgement of country and welcome to country.

Sam: I think, for me, moving here was actually part of that process because as a First Nations Australian, as a Nyikina, it was important that I present myself to the traditional custodians of country here and ask permission to be on their land, which I did from the very outset. When I first moved here, I had a direct engagement, we undertook some really private cultural protocols also with the Chumash Nations, which are adjacent to Tongva, and built a relationship from the ground up in terms of the recognition and the reciprocity. It's really I guess embedding ourselves into a way in which we can step mindfully on other people's country no matter who we are and no matter where we are in the world.

It is fledgling in the US. They do call I guess welcome to countries here, land acknowledgements. I've been part of the movement that really has pushed, in some significant ways, one of the milestones of that was the grand opening of the Sixth Street Bridge. In being the director of that production and three-day event, it was navigating a terrain where they're really unfamiliar with this type of protocol and saying to them gently and affirmed at the same time that this goes before the mayor, that this is the first thing we do on this bridge before we start anything.

I thought we would be up for resistance, but it was really embraced, and we had a very strong visual identity at the opening of the bridge for all the general public to see that this was Tongva country, and here's the name of downtown LA, here's the name of the river, and a really small language awareness push as part of that.

That's rippled across a lot of practices here in the US now with different-- be it in academic settings, be it in also-- the zoos, for example, are embracing it and it is illuminating up and around. I think as Australians, it's also a really important, and even New Zealand and other countries that practice land acknowledgements, to really get behind and embed this into just every day over here so that it starts to really amplify.

Interviewer: That's great, so let's talk about your country. Tell us about where you grew up.

Sam: I grew up just outside of my traditional homeland, which is in and around Derby, Western Australia, but I grew up in Broome, and most people are familiar with Broome because of Brand New Day, the film and the musical, and the great recordings from my Michael Jimmy Chai, but it was a beautiful upbringing in the sense that as a young Nyikina person at the time, I was growing up all the key figures in key positions of influence in the town were all Blackfellas, and so it was a majority Aboriginal town.

I guess the reinforcement of what that meant was that we could be the CEO of an organization, we could be the leaders, we could take on key roles in community, and it wasn't a narrative that spoke underhanded about who we could not be. It was really about elevating us as our own person into whatever career pathway we wanted. It was the strength of coming from an area that was one of the last to be colonized but also really strong on culture and country but really also respectful of protocol on how we travel around other people's places too. I think it was idyllic, very quiet, and sometimes you just need that especially in a city like LA.

Interviewer: Absolutely. From that background, we're going to do a really quick fast forward.  When did you move to the United States?

Sam: That is now six and a couple of months, years ago. It was not a decision that I made definitively, it was just that I had my daughter here and I felt she needed me a little bit more than my son who's back in Australia. I guess I was fighting the empty nester syndrome and decided “where do I want to be?”. Yes, six years ago, I took the leap. I'm now a dual citizen though, so I guess I'm here for a minute.

Interviewer:  Where were you living at the time six years ago when you decided to come over and see your daughter here in the United States?

Sam: I was in Meanjin, I was in Brisbane. I'd been the director of the Dreaming Festival up at Woodford and a program affiliate for the Woodford Folk Festival, and just before that, was working at the Yirra Yaakin Theatre Company in Perth and University of Melbourne with the Wilin Centre. I'd sort of jumped around the country at that point and really found my lane, which was large-scale festival and events chaos, and after that, came crashing down with the Brisbane floods. It really was a time to recalibrate and really rethink what do I want to do, where do I want to be. I decided I wanted to be a digital nomad and I could be anywhere in the world, and I guess that's really what got me here as well as my daughter.

Interviewer: When you talk about the flood in Brisbane, that was the flood that wiped out the site of the Dreaming Festival?

Sam: That's correct, yes, 2011-2012. We were one of the first areas to get hit before Brisbane, and it really decimated the site of Woodfordia up in Woodford, Queensland. It was devastating, and there was really a difficult journey to recover if any in terms of where we were pre-natural disaster to where we ended up. The sadness of that really was that one of three leading international indigenous festivals of the world now no longer exists because of the impacts of the natural disaster. That was the Dreaming, yes.

Interviewer: Absolutely tragic.

Sam: Yeah

Interviewer: So, when did you make the decision to move across to the United States?

Sam: I say I put my paperwork in under Obama, and then Trump got in, so everything started to slow down a little bit in terms of the paperwork, and then it accelerated really quickly. It was December 2017, and two weeks before the departure date was when I received documentation that I was all approved, but I had two weeks in order to activate everything. They really didn't give a great deal of time.

I was pretty fearful of the current political regime at that time, so I opted to do a soft entry to activate my permanent residence, and I went through Hawaii. It was beautiful and I recommend it. It wasn't really draconian, everyone was really excited, and I was excited because they were excited, so yes.

Interviewer: And so, December '17 you get your papers approved, and then when do you arrive on the lovely shores of Hawaii?

Sam: 12th of December.

Interviewer: Oh, my goodness.

Sam: Yes, they really didn't give you a lot of time to activate for whatever reason, and I think it was a bit of a test as well to see if you really were committed to moving. I just put everything in super speed, fast forward really quickly, and made it over. Yes, there's mojitos on the beach.

Interviewer: Not too bad. How do you manage that transition in career and life activities when you're moving yourself across the Pacific? How did you do that? You talked about being a digital nomad earlier. How did you transition from an Australian life into that new lifestyle?

Sam: It was one that I was actually really hesitant on because I thought, I move across the world, nobody knows me, they don't know my career trajectory, they don't know any of my achievements, it means nothing, do I have to start again? I was really reluctant to start again in that respect.

I think having the safety net of some really good relationships back in Australia meant that I was able to be here and work internationally. That was one of the pieces that I really laid down, I wanted to be able to travel still. Immediately, the contracts that came through were gigs in Sydney and in Byron Bay, and then one in Ethiopia. I was like, "Okay, this is starting to take off," and then building the relationships here and finding a really amazing, authentic group of like-minded people and creative talent, second to none out here from Australia, and really inspiring.

Then feeling like I didn't have to lose my currency and that we could have these conversations at this elevated level, and we could start from there instead of dishes upward thing. Yes, so that was really the resistance or the initial hesitation about, "Do I really want to do this?" Then once I locked into it, it was like, I can't turn back now.

Interviewer: As those projects that sort of connect back to Australia start to conclude and you're looking more to what's happening in the US, how did you transition your career into working in the United States? How did that process look for you?

Sam: Part of it was a really conscious decision. I think when I was at the Australian Theatre Festival, and we'd done a moved reading of Milk by Dylan Vandenberg, and I'm sitting there on a panel and they're asking, how many Americans does everybody know? How many Australians do you know in the quota. Everyone's like, "I don't really know any Aussies." Then I realized I didn't really know any Americans. It was time.

I think I just reached in a different way. I took on some gigs here that positioned me in a really favorable way to be seen by the industry over here. The industry, at the time, was large-scale festivals and events. From that really hit the bootstraps and be a name that people could call on to be like in the operations rooms and in the direction of the events that we then went on and did.

Interviewer: How do you find those connections and work that network in a specific industry? It's a large events industry. How do you get in?

Sam: Doing what I'd call random acts of innocent insanity.

Interviewer: [chuckles] Good.

Sam: One of the events that really was a turning point was an event in Santa Ana. It was an event that had a really tragic story in the middle. It was a police brutality story. It was a council member's family member who was gunned down by the police. At the intersection of that, he was really adamant that the commemoration for Brandon Lopez, his cousin, would be there.

Now, I didn't know that that was the major artery for the whole of the Santa, Ana Orange County District. I said, "Yes, sure, we can shut down that intersection." We did. I made a major event happen in the biggest corridor of that part of Southern California, not knowing how the impact of that would really be received.

I think everyone was like, "Oh my goodness, she's a hero." No one else could have pulled that off, and it was really just because I didn't know any better. I was like, "Okay, well, yes, let's get the permit waived for this. Let's do that. This is how it's going to look at the intersection," and then get it all blocked off and was up at 4:00 AM with the trucks filling the water barricades to block the road off and stay there till the whole day, basically, on a Saturday on one of the busiest days of the year. Yes, that got me mad props.

Interviewer: Yeah, that’s an incredible first step into producing events in Santa Ana – it’s a city down in Orange County for those who don’t know where cars are very sacred, and I’m sure to stop roads was very controversial – how did you even get that first gig?

Sam: Yes. I want to say that it was stepping backwards. It was through direct connections with some of the Aussies out here and then being welcomed into their circle, and from that circle, the gig coming through. Really value, as I said, the amazing Australians out here who are doing phenomenal things and leaning in and everyone being really supportive.

That was the thing that I think is not unique to me in that when you're in Australia, a lot of it, you can't do. It's a very negatively geared situation, especially for Aboriginal women. You overachieve so by. Then over here, where everyone's just like, "Okay, let's go." I'm like, "What?" There was a bit of removing the conditioning of where we were supposed to be and what our place was supposed to look like to being open to a whole range of gigs at phenomenal levels and really advancing the arts and creative spaces and personal journey at the same time.

Interviewer: Is there a moment where you felt local, where you felt like what we call an Angeleno? Do you remember any moment where you're like, "Yes, this is my town now"?

Sam: No, because I still, even last night, coming back from the gym, I was like, "I'm in America." I literally said that out loud. I'm like, "I can't believe I'm here." Also, because I saw a checklist and I haven't seen a burning palm tree yet. I think if I see the burning palm tree, yes, I might be a local at that point.

Interviewer: To recap, you’ve closed an intersection down in Orange County, you’ve thrown an opening for the 6^th Street Bridge – and if our listeners don’t know, that was a massive LA project. It took years, it’s a bridge that connects Downtown to East LA, and it’s a significant bridge in many ways, both culturally and in terms of the movement of vehicles in Los Angeles. You’ve produced the opening of that with the mayor and other dignitaries, but you’re still not convinced you’re an LA local just yet?

Sam: No burning palm trees, I'm afraid.

Interviewer: Right. Just a burning palm tree away.

Sam: Absolutely.

Interviewer: If you had to look back to 2017, the time right before you moved, is there any advice that you'd give yourself?

Sam: Oh, that's a really interesting question because I was as prepared as you think you can be until you really hit the ground. Then it's, honestly, it's all that logistical stuff that you don't know if you don't know. I think part of the work that I can do now with APRA AMCOS, for example, is be a bit of a source of information to the members who are over here, either touring or thinking about visa options or permanent residence or immigration, all sorts of things to be able to step through some of those pieces that I just didn't know so that they can get on with the business of creating amazing outcomes and wonderful music and whatever artistic endeavors they wish to do.

Interviewer: That is an excellent way to wrap this up because people will have the opportunity to hear what you've had to say today. As the APRA AMCOS representative, I'm sure you get a lot of phone calls and emails from people who are starting the journey themselves and looking for that guidance. Just hearing a little tiny bit of your story, I hope is, well, I'm sure is inspirational to them.

Thank you very much for talking to us for The Cockatoo interview. It’s an amazing story that you’ve come from one of the most remote parts of Australia, or even the world! And here you are doing incredible work here in LA, as a producer, as a leader in our community and as someone who is helping our songwriters out here. You definitely are a part of this community and we’re so glad you’re here, so it’s been lovely talking to you today, Sam.

Sam: Thank you, Adam.

Interviewer: This has been The Cockatoo interview. It's part of our newsletter for the Australian Music Alliance. We are all under the umbrella of the Pitch Hiker Foundation, which is a 501C3. Please feel free to donate, but the most important thing is that you enjoy listening to what we have to say and the conversations we have and supporting Australians and Australian music here in the United States. Thanks so much for tuning in and we will catch you on the next edition of The Cockatoo.